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Database form front end for Dataverse

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Posted on by Tal22

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I am an Access developer using Dataverse tables. My organization would like to move apps to the cloud. I am resisting this because I cannot find a database solution as powerful as Access. (I explored using Model Driven apps but that platform lacks basic features like concatenation functions). Does anyone know of a third-party front-end cloud app comparable to Access that connects to Dataverse?

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Microsoft Dataverse with Power Apps

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Guido Preite 1,488 Super User 2024 Season 1 on at

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I don't think you can find a front-end app by a third party connecting to Dataverse more powerful than a model-driven app.

Regarding your specific question (the concatenation) maybe there isn't a UI function to achieve what you want but it can probably be done by server code (C# Plugins).

If you create a list of examples of what you need to achieve in Dataverse me and other users can take a look and tell you if in my opinion is doable and which tool you can use for it.

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Shashank Bhide 942 Moderator on at

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If you post the question w.r.t what you want to concatenate, we can help, Access is no match for Dataverse (IMO)

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Jonathan Manrique 2,687 on at

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Hi @Tal22

I recommend that you learn a little about dataverse and become familiar with how this database can interact with its native front ends and enhance application development.

First of all, there is nothing more powerful than using dataverse in a Model Driven App or a Canvas App.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/power-apps/maker/data-platform/

I suggest you consult the documentation.

Then, as they tell you, there are extension forms that make the application powerful, whether you do it in the back with C# (plugin, Azure Function, Power Automate, etc.), in the user interface with JS. But it even has other forms such as Power FX.

IN this example I put you concatenate

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/power-platform/power-fx/reference/function-concatenate

If you want to use another front office tool you will have to set up your entire query protocol to the Dataverse API and this will be much more complex

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Tal22 259 on at

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I am not impressed with the Model Driven apps platform available to me. It pales in comparison to Access capabilities. Regarding creating names columns, in Access you create two columns, first and last name. Then you concatenate first and lasts names in a query that is then used in a form (via combo box). In my version of Dataverse, the persons first and last name have to be entered into the Primary column. This violates a basic tenant of good database design called atomization. As for concatenation, I know how to concatenate columns in Dataverse but it is not possible to map concatenate columns using Lookup's and I don't want to delve into C#. Besides, there is no documentation on how or where you can configure a lookup column. In short, Model Driven apps are good for basic applications but not for robust and complex database applications.
Thanks for the information, though. I suspect I have a different version / license of Dataverse than you.

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Tal22 259 on at

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Hi, I am not sure if you're a deep user of Access. It is far more powerful and customizable than Model Driven apps. As I replied in the previous post, I understand how to create concatenated columns in a Dataverse table. Using them as Lookup sources to relate tables is not possible. Moreover, as I posted here in a reply, Model Driven forms/Dataverse violates a basic best practice of sound database design called atomization. It is not a serious or robust solution.

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Tal22 259 on at

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Thanks, as stated in my replies here, I understand how to create concatenated columns in Dataverse. I write these strings all the time in Access queries and forms. I also have taken a deep dive into Model Driven apps. My problem is the pretzel log of jumping between other apps like Power Automate and I am not a C# programmer. PA and C# is not required to build powerful Access applications.

It looks like Canvass Apps would be a solution, but my organization does not have a license. To make my work more complicated, my non-profit org also uses a Human Services Saas platform that uses Zoho analytics. Hence, I have to maintain two database systems. I am thinking of moving away from Dataverse and migrating to Zoho Creator. I don't know if you have any experience with this Zoho platform. If so, would love to hear your feedback.

Also, the link you posted, Dataverse documentation - Power Apps | Microsoft Learn, is outdated. For example, the window shown below for "Real-time workflows" is no longer an option in my Dataverse environment.
I've looked a MS documentation many times and it is usually very outdated or full or errors. Probably because Microsoft is unable to keep up with its own, unwieldly platform.

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Guido Preite 1,488 Super User 2024 Season 1 on at

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if you think that Dataverse is not a good solution and other products like Access or Zoho (that I also use and happened that I did integrations with Dataverse, including Zoho CRM, Zoho Books and Zoho Subscriptions) nobody is stopping you to use them and I don't think here you will find users telling you "Dataverse is the best platform of the world" or "you must use Dataverse" because each system has its own strength and weak points.

Let me write a couple of examples:

I am quite sure you are considering alternatives to Access for some reasons (otherwise you will continue to use it) and probably the main ones are the multi-user access and the availability to the cloud, probably an excel file shared on OneDrive has better capabilities than an Access DB stored in the same way, and Dataverse is built to be multi-user and on the cloud.

Let's do another comparison between Dataverse and Zoho Creator you mentioned, In Zoho Creator you can create security roles and role hierarchy but the security model of Dataverse (Security Roles, Owner Teams, Access Teams, Column Security Profiles, Business Unit separation, Sharing capabilities) is far superior than Zoho Creator.

I know the market and you know better than me there are other platforms where you are able to build your own schema. Can I mention Salesforce? can I mention Mendix? can I mention smaller players like Airtable or Citrix Podio? Yes I can, because there isn't a product suitable for everybody.

If you want to ask suggestions on Dataverse I am very happy (and other users as well) to give advises on how to implement a feature that is straightforward to implement out of the box, but if you come here to vent about Dataverse and Microsoft do not expect a reply or someone telling you "you right! MS sucks" and the main reason is that these are Business applications, not football teams, people work with these products.

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Jonathan Manrique 2,687 on at

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Hi @Tal22

I think ignorance often makes us say things we don't know.

I recommend that if you are not happy with this platform you can look for other alternatives on the market, there are many.

It is not perfect but here you will find PASSIONATE about MSFT technology and this forum is to help build and solve, not to criticize.

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Tal22 259 on at

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I work for a non-profit organization, and I don't have much say in terms of choosing SaaS platforms. In other words, I am stuck with Microsoft.

As I mentioned earlier, we are using a Human Services Saas platform connected to Zoho analytics which I use to create dashboards and reports. The reason I asked about Zoho Creator is that I can directly access the data tables in Zoho Analytics, data created by the Human Services SaaS we use. My version of Dataverse, on the other hand, does not have a connecter to Zoho Analytics.

As for my claim they MS sucks, I will be more precise in my assessment. Outside of the standard office products, Outlook, Word, Excel, Access and PowerPoint, Power Platform in general makes for a difficult user experience for people like me who don't have advanced degrees in computer science.

As I previously stated, either the documentation for Dataverse is outdated, or there are different versions of Dataverse. I spoke to my IT person, and they responded that they "don't have a PHD in Microsoft Licensing" so, we really don't know what version of MS products we have.

Given that Microsoft's platform, software, coding, and tech is done it India, I suspect some of the UX and UI issues are simply results of cultural and translation issues.

That said, I will stick with Access until I feel Model Driven apps reach the power and capability that Access offers.

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Tal22 259 on at

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It is not ignorance. I have used other PaaS and SaaS platforms that were far easier to use with UX and UI far superior to Power Platform for no code/low code apps.

I also reached out there for help, but the solutions offered, the procedures stated do not track with my UI. I suspect this is because I have a downgraded version of Dataverse/Model Driven apps.

Which version do you have?

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