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New PowerApps and Flow Licensing coming October 1, 2019

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Posted on by 69,665 Most Valuable Professional

If you haven't seen the announcement yet about the Licensing changes that are coming to PowerApps and Flow starting on October 1, 2019 you really need to read the following Blog. This announcement was originally made at Inspire this year, but has undergone a number of significant changes.  Make sure you read this and understand what it means to you and your organization.

https://powerapps.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/new-licensing-options-for-powerapps-and-flow/

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  • PaulD1 Profile Picture
    2,914 on at

    More info at this link:

    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/power-platform/admin/powerapps-flow-licensing-faq

    A key concern for our team is Azure SQL DB (among many other connectors) being reclassified as premium. We standardised on using Azure SQL DB as the datasource for our (PowerApps and Flow based) Apps as we consider it more capable (Views, Stored Procedures, better support for delegation) and easier to scale than SharePoint Lists or CDS (and most of our customers don't have CDS anyway).

    For our clients who are already paying for PowerApps (via O365 license) and Azure SQL DB, it is going to be hard to explain why they now have to pay extra to continue using those services together in their existing apps.

  • Community Power Platform Member Profile Picture
    Microsoft Employee on at

    What will happen to PowerApps and Flows that don't use a P1 or P2 license? Does the ability to use the free plans of PowerApp and Flow still exist if you are not using any premium connectors or does every user or end user need one of the new licenses?

  • Merlijn Profile Picture
    128 on at
    In previous posts I read about a minimum of 30 licenses (per app plan). I can't find it in de FAQ. Is this still the minimum purchase?

    I'm asking this because a lot of our relations are small-business and doesnt have 30 users and a single app...
  • FredericForest Profile Picture
    303 on at

    Aah, feels good to see that this topic is finally debated ! It felt is was almost hush-hush for a while.

    Don't get me wrong : the Office 365 Power App licence + Azure SQL DB was a deal that was just too good to be true, it needed reajusting. But now the pendulum swung quite violently to the other extreme...

    We're extremly affected by these new changes. Like many others, we only use Azure SQL DB as a backend and HTTP Responses to return PROC data (for a variety of reasons we won't debate here). A client has already pulled out of a project days before production (didn't know about the 5 year grace...) and I expect others to soon follow. The client even suggested to switch the project to an Access database. Argh ! Smiley Frustrated

    A lot of our current projects revolved around "profesionnalising" artisanal business processes (aka : Excel sheets grown too big for their own good). These scenarios often have a low usage (maybe once a month) but adress a large user-base (50+ users). The P1 licences just cannot work in such a scenario since business sponsors are not willing to pay 6K€/year in licensing fees to replace a single Excel-based process (or 25K€/years for mulitple ones...), no matter how clunky and error prone it is.

    Personally, I'm hoping something akin to the daily-login licensing concept for the portal could be extended to the regular canvas apps. Azure has had tremandous success with the Pay-as-you-go formula since it allowed a real "land and expand" strategy. Give the people a taste of what PowerApps can do with cheap, easy to commit to scenarios and they'll remember you when the big lucrative use-cases come around.

     

    My two cents anyway :winking_face:

     

    ps: anyone know if the grace period also includes the HTTP responses ? Patch() is a handy little tool, but it's not going to cut it for complex business logic over large datasets ^^

  • MagnusGöransson Profile Picture
    424 on at

    Thanks for your reply, Paul

    I hope i can get some official statement around the grace period - not that i dont trust you :slightly_smiling_face: - but i would like to see something from Microsoft staff on this. Hopefully they wake up!

    I have one big app just about to go into prod. It uses the Azure SQL connector. I need to convince my customer that they are safe during the five year exempt period otherwise they will pull out and buy a third party case management system instead.

    In my particular case we are talking about approx 2000 users and we are already paying for the SQL Server in Azure and for Office 365 licenses. Also paying for the ability to communicate with SQL doesnt make a single sense to me.

    Please, Microsoft staff, spread some ligth over this!

    /Magnus

  • Rick72 Profile Picture
    385 on at

    @Pstork1 Thanks for starting this thread.

     

    I have several thoughts at the moment about the new licensing model. Two of them I would like to share. It are 2 questions about the "PowerApps per app" plan.

     

    Question I

    Canvas apps have been positioned for customized tasks and role-based apps and model-driven apps for back-office scenarios. A business solution (called application in the licensing F.A.Q.) I have in mind is build on this concept and contains a few model-driven apps and several canvas apps. The apps are role specific, meaning an employee would normally only need just a few of these apps. This setup is also based on a best practice not to make big apps.

     

    The new "PowerApps per app" plan allows for 2 apps and a single portal per application. So how are these 2 apps determined? If this is max. 2 apps per user per business solution, then I think it is ok. If this is max. 2 apps per business solution, then I think, well, :neutral_face:

     

    Question II

    Some business solutions only need to be executed once a year. Enabling a business solution for only one month could be an option.  How will the billing be processed? Example: All apps present on the first of the month will be counted.

     

    Thanks!

    Rick

  • NEPatton Profile Picture
    360 on at

    I work at a manufacturing facility, and I've been using PowerApps to really change how we do work in my department.  All of my apps go through SQL as I'm connecting to various data sets used by other applications (e.g. Blue Mountain).  I've been active in the forums, and I've really held out hope for PowerApps as a long term solution at my site - but this is killer.  I might be able (MIGHT be able) to swing the money for a single P2 license and a few P1 licenses for my team to continue using the apps I've developed - but I'll never be able to expand my game-changing apps out to other groups (100's of employees).  Why would I continue using a product that isn't expandable (expansion is cost prohibitive = not expandable)?  

     

    Someone up above said it best - this makes Powerapps a wasted opportunity.  And others were correct as well - I'm going to have to stop using Powerapps and start making something else on my own.  I'll go back to asp.net and eat the hours it takes to rebuild everything I've made in Powerapps on my own web page if I have to.  At least it's something I can rely on!

     

    *feeling very betrayed - drinking wine in T-MINUS 2 hours*

  • Rick72 Profile Picture
    385 on at

    While investigation the impact of the license model changes on existing PowerApps apps, does anyone know if the request limits are grandfathered too on Azure SQL Databases for 5 years, or are they enforced from october 1, 2019? Does anyone know this? I have not found any info on this.

  • Rick72 Profile Picture
    385 on at

    I wonder if the "full capabilities of PowerApps" includes the AI Builder.

  • AngryBatVoice Profile Picture
    203 on at

    Since my somewhat detailed post, which was an on-topic reaction to this announcement that contained no profanity or other community-guidelines violations that I could tell, appears to have been deleted without any explanation.  Could someone from Microsoft or a moderator of this community please explain to me the opinion of these changes I'm allowed to have?

     

    EDIT (Original Post, however I did remove the part where I called the move a bait-and-switch, stated that Microsoft should be ashamed, and compared their 5-year grace period to adding sugar to poison, just in case those statements crossed a line):  

    Microsoft should recognize the damage this move has done to their brand. They have been selling us on this idea of "low-code-no-code" and then pulled the carpet out from under their customers by jacking up the price to an unreasonable degree. They have taken what was a platform full of promise and potential and turned it into a cash grab. It doesn't matter which team this decision comes from, at the end of the day, it is coming from Microsoft. If they don't have the ability to oversee and to make sure their teams are working together and not hurting each other's customers, then they have bigger problems than PowerApps users having access to AzureSQL. The Powerapps-AzureSQL scenario being "too good to be true" and in need of adjustment is just giving them too much benefit of the doubt.  I'm paying for PowerApps, I'm paying for AzureSQL, both products are within the Microsoft ecosystem, why in the world do I then need to pay a third time to connect them? And why does connecting the products cost 3x as much as the individual products themselves?

     

    But this decision doesn't just damage Microsoft's brand and the trust they'd built with us.  With this decision, Microsoft has injured my own brand and credibility with my company.  I've spent the past year learning, developing, and selling my company on the idea of the Power Platform and to embrace the tools that we are paying for with our Office 365 and Azure licenses. My company has invested in my time and paid for training on the Power Platform, gaining me skills that I now won't be able to utilize. I have to go back to them and explain that our new processes involving the Power Platform are only a stopgap, because in 5 years the cost of continuing to use them will explode exponentially. 

     

    We can't just go back to using Sharepoint as our data source, it is too insecure.  And the cost of the new licensing model is quite frankly out of our reach.  We aren't a large company.  The potential savings from continuing to use the Power Platform to streamline our processes doesn't come close to covering this new cost of the product.  There is no scenario where we can afford this.

     

     

    What could they have done instead?

    1. Implement the new plans, but leave the AzureSQL and AzureBlobStorage connectors as Standard instead of Premium.  We're already paying for those products, the ability to use PowerApps to connect to them shouldn't need covered by a third fee.
    2. Make Premium connectors ala carte/Pay as you go. Let me pay a reasonable fee to add a premium connector to my tenant.  I don't need ALL the premium connectors.  I don't need MOST of the premium connectors.  I really only need one or two. In our current setup, there are apps that we could benefit from, but I haven't built because the connector needed for it is premium, and the cost to get access to that single connector is too high, because I have to buy access to ALL the connectors to get it.
    3. Have a much cheaper license for App/Flow USERs, similar to the cheaper F1 license for O365. I don't need everyone in my tenant to have the ability to make apps. I could see paying a higher fee for Maker/Admin licenses and having a minimal, F1-style fee for User licenses.
    4. Make the Per-App license just that, a license Per-App, not Per-App-Per-User.  

    I am pressing on with my PowerApps development for the time being, with the hopes that Microsoft course-corrects on this.  I know there is more to the new licenses than just the AzureSQL and Blob Storage connectors, but from my perspective, making those connectors Premium is what places the new licenses out of my reach.

     

    I've contemplated just building a bunch of blank template PowerApps/Flows and adding these connectors to them, for future development after the Oct 1 mark, but I feel like this would be cheating the system, and I'd rather not treat Microsoft the way they are treating us. 

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